Speaking to Ilke News Agency about latest developments in Syria, Mustafa Radif, a Syrian Kurdish lawyer and the vice president of Kombenda Serbixwe Yên Sûryê (The Alliance of Syrian Community of Independents), stated that PKK oppresses other Kurdish factions in the region under its control.
The full text of the interview with Radif Mustafa is as follows:
“PKK has killed many politicians and the opponents of the Syrian regime”
-Who is Radif Mustafa? Why did you come Turkey?
I want to thank you for this interview. My name is Radif Mustafa. I am from Kobani. I am a lawyer. I was born in the Péndir village of Kobani in a family that always involved in politics and the opposition. I have worked for many NGOs so far. I and my friends continued to fight for political rights till the beginning of the Syrian uprising in 2011. At the beginning of the uprising, they attacked my house and injured my son, Rodi, because we were opponents. In addition, the members of Syrian intelligence service stormed my house many times. Due to threats, I had to hide in many villages. In this way, I continued my life for a while until I decided to form the Syrian National Revolutionary Assembly. This process began with the decision to convene in Istanbul, and because of this, we crossed into Turkey. I came Turkey with my family in September 2011. We stayed in Şanlıurfa. The main reason for emigrating to Turkey was the Syrian intelligence and the regime. Another reason was the PKK. There has been disagreement between us since the first day the process of revolution began in Syria. PKK and Syrian regime struck a deal in this process. PKK sent me threatening letters many times, saying: “You're either going to be with us or you're going to get out of here.” Mişel Temo and many other politicians, who were opponents of Syrian regime, were killed following the agreement between PKK and the regime.
“PKK opposed the revolution and the Kurds who supported the revolution from day one”
-What is the latest situation of Kurds who lives in PKK-controlled regions? Did the Kurds and Arabs who lived in these regions and emigrated because of the regime and the PKK return?
Before answering your question, I want to go to the beginning of the process of the revolution in order for the issue could be understood better. Syrian people upraised against the regime in order to demand their rights. For this reason, the revolution was named as “the Revolution of the Freedom and the Honor”
In this process, if the Syrians were wronged once, it was done twice to the Kurds. Because of this, the Kurds participated in this revolution. But since the first day of the revolution, the PKK has always acted with the Syrian regime and has also agreed with states in the region that oppose the revolution. The only goal of the revolution for the Syrian people was to topple Bashar al-Assad, and instead to create a government that recognizes the Kurds and their rights and does not make a difference between the Arab and the Kurd. But the PKK has opposed the revolution since day one. He especially opposed the Kurds, who were involved in the revolutionary process.
PKK killed or kidnapped people who took part in the revolution process
At the beginning of the revolution, PKK was not in the region. Instead, PYD was there. Then, we saw that PKK were transferring its members from Qandil Mountains to Syria for a heinous plan. We knew that they had bad intentions and plans for the revolution, especially in the Kurdish regions. Syrian regime handed over the Kurdish regions to PKK overtly. There were Syrian regime’s institutions, such as intelligence units and the headquarters of security forces in the regions that were handed over to PKK. The collaboration between PKK and the regime is continuing in the Kurdish regions. There are both PKK members and regime forces in some Kurdish region. But some regions are only under the control of PKK members. With the support of the regime, PKK started to fight against the revolution and the revolutionaries. PKK targeted the youth and eliminated the politic personalities in the region. They also kidnapped or killed some politicians such as Mişel Temo and Behzad Dursun. The members of Sheik Henan family were slaughtered completely. All of those people were the supporters of the revolution. They also conducted a massacre in Amude, for the people of Amude were actively participating the revolution.
“PKK kidnapped and killed Kurds in order to get Kurdish people moved away from the revolutionThere are some motives behind the alliance between Syrian regime and Apoists (PKK). First, the regime was in danger because it had lost 70 percent of Syrian territory. Russia and Iran supported the regime in order to prevent its collapsion. The mission of PKK was to separate the Kurds in Syria from the revolution. Second, the problem of the Syrian Kurds and the solution is not in Iraq, Turkey, or Iran. The Damascus regime was the source of their problems and troubles. Apoists told the Syrian Kurds that Erdoğan is only their enemy not Assad. Unfortunately, they have successfully achieved their goals to remove Kurds from the revolution.
“They deceived people, the situation in Kurdish regions is not good in any way”
PKK deceived Kurds, therefore, they started to say: “We don’t want Turks. Turks are the enemy of Kurds. Whereas, Bashar Assad and his father didn’t even give Kurds an identity. Nevertheless, Assad is the friend of Kurds and Erdoğan the enemy!
“With the arrival of the PKK, the existing problems were not solved, but rather increased"
The United States and PKK coincided a story in Kobani. The attack of the ISIL on Kobani and the response of the international coalition are another storyline. PKK took advantage of the attack. It filled his cash box with money. For example, the PKK liberated Kobani, and ISIS got out of there. But half of the people living in Kobani are still not returning there. Because there are not young people anymore in Kobani. The reason for this is the PKK. The problems that existed with the arrival of the PKK were not solved, but rather increased.
“ISIS and the PKK are no different, dozens of people were killed by the PKK just for money”
There were good relations between Arabs and Kurds in history. The source of the problems was Syrian regime. PKK has destroyed some Arab settlements and oppressed people. Therefore, it has created some problems between Arabs and Kurds. For this reason, Arabs have fostered a sense of hostility against Kurds. Because of this, the Arabs say that the PKK is the Kurd. For this reason, there was a hostility against the Kurds among the Arabs. Although we say that the PKK is not a representative of the Kurds, this approach has not changed. Just as ISIS is not a representative of Sunni Muslims, the PKK is not a representative of Kurds. Unfortunately, Arabs say that PKK oppresses on behalf of Kurds. ISIL has also a part in the formation of this mentality. Because as the PKK says that ‘all Arabs are the supports of ISIL’, Arabs say that ‘all Kurds are irreligious.’ Because of what the PKK has done, the Arab people no longer accept the Kurds and think that the Kurds have betrayed them.
"Some states are using the PKK to their advantage, and when the PKK came to Syria, it targeted all Kurdish groups"
-How do you think there is a relationship between the PKK and other states?
I think PKK and the other groups-affiliated with it are terrorist organizations. PKK always acted against the interests of Kurds both in Syria and other Kurdish regions, take it from me. We closely monitor the developments in Kurdish regions of Turkey and Iraq. Abdullah Öcalan once described the Kurdish government in Iraq as “a poisonous dagger in the back of Arabs”. Abdullah Öcalan said it regarding acquirements of Kurds. Everybody knows that he said it. They have opposed Iraqi Kurdistan government since day one. They aim to destroy the acquirements of Kurdish people in Iraq. PKK members aim to do what they did in Iraq also in Syria. The PKK has aimed to do what it is trying to do in Iraqi Kurdistan, as well as in Syrian Kurdistan. When they came Syria, they tried to take all Kurdish factions under their control. They wanted everybody to obey Abdullah Öcalan. Their field of activity is Turkish Kurdistan. In order to solve the problems that exist in Turkish Kurdistan, the option of war must be eliminated and political struggle should be launched to achieve a future for the Kurds. States in the region, as well as countries such as France and Germany, have repeatedly stated that the PKK is a terrorist organization. But for the PKK that exists in Syria (referring to the PYD), they say, 'they are not the PKK, they have no relationship with the PKK'. Currently, these states have contacts with the PKK. This contact is due to political and economic interests. They gave money to the PKK and hired it, and now they are using it to their advantage. For example, these states used the PKK in the fight against ISIS. American and other states' relations with the PKK are not in the interest of the Kurds. Whether the Kurds have won or lost something; it is not very important thing for the PKK. Sometimes they come and pursue other plans and projects. Even more importantly, the name of the PKK is not even mentioned at the moment, instead the name of the Democratic Confederal, KCK and similar formations is mentioned.
“If the PKK had a concern about the Kurds, it would not align itself with Syrian regime, which has denied the existence of Kurds for 50 years”
PKK used to say that it will liberate all four parts of Kurdistan. But they have given up this idea. When we look at the statements of Cemil Bayık, Sabri Ok, Murat Karayılan and other leaders of the organization, we see that they make decision on behalf of other factions not PKK. Their existence in Iraq, Iran and Syria damages the interests of Kurdish people. For example, Peshmerga forces foiled a terrorist attack plotted by PKK in Iraqi Kurdistan. What is PKK doing in Iraqi Kurdistan? Again, PKK has taken Kurdish regions in Syria under its control in the interests of Syrian regime. Doing so, PKK serves everybody but Kurds.
“Some foreign states are setting PKK against Turkey”
Kurdistan flag were unfurled in Dara and Homs at the beginning of Syrian revolution. The weekly protests held on Fridays. One Friday was named as the “Friday of Liberty”, another the “Friday of Mişel Temo”. In this way, a new movement started in Syria. Therefore, the Syrian Kurds would have been recognized and they would have gained their political rights. But PKK run counter to it in Syrian Kurdistan.
In a word, PKK is a project. Some foreign states are setting PKK against Turkey. It is unclear when and how the PKK will disappear, but the PKK will one day disappear, as will ISIL and Nusra. But what hurts us is that; They has done damage to both Kurds and all Syrian people by aligning with Assad regime.
We told PKK from day one that they are a Turkey-originated faction. We said that the Kurdish issue in Turkey cannot be solved through armed conflict. This issue can be solved only through political struggle and legislative acts.
"The PKK closed many ENKS offices, kidnapped and imprisoned their representatives. The PKK acts the same way the regime treats the Kurds before"
-What is the fate of ENKS members and other Kurdish politicians kidnapped by the PYD / PKK? Why are ENKS members and other Kurdish politicians targeted by the PKK?
Since the issue you mentioned is very important, it is necessary to give some detailed explanation. In my opinion, since the day it was founded the PKK -God shorten its life- has targeted and attacked politicians representing Kurds in areas where Kurds live in other words in Iranian Kurdistan in Turkey Kurdistan, in Iraqi Kurdistan. The purpose of these attacks is to subject them to itself or to eliminate them. PKK aimed to do this with its attacks. They tried it many times in Iraqi Kurdistan, but they failed, but they reached their goal, albeit a bit Kurdistan in Turkey. They eliminated all existing Kurdish political parties there. They tried to do this also in Syria. As Kombedên Kurdê Serbixwe (Independent Kurdish Alliance), we are called terrorists by the PKK in Syrian Kurdistan and if one of us is caught there, they will be killed immediately. I have previously told you about the murder of Michel Temo and similar people in Amûdê and other Kurdish cities. The PKK kidnapped and killed many opposition political representatives of Syrian Kurdistan, and handed over many of them to the Syrian regime. The PKK behaves in the same way as the regime in Syrian Kurdistan used to treat the Kurds. Sometimes it acts worse than that. The bullying and injustices committed by the PKK against the Kurds still continue.
For example, the PKK closed many offices of ENKS in Syrian Kurdistan, kidnapped its representatives and imprisoned them. There is something more important, I want to talk about it. The PKK persecutes the people in the places where it is dominant and acts in a tyrant. And he takes a break after a certain period of time. The purpose of this break is a political game. Because he is taking a break from his cruelty and tyranny in order to be represented in the opposition groups that exist in Syria and to participate in the Geneva talks. As the Syrian opposition, we opposed this and said; The PKK has nothing to do with the Syrian opposition, it has a connection with the regime. If it is going to sit at the table, it should come and sit down with the Syrian regime. When the same PKK is caught in the corner, it reaches out to the ENKS, which it has persecuted and violated its rights before, and tries to show that it protects the Kurds with this attitude. In a way, he tries to cover up the crimes he has done and committed. However, after a while, the PKK withdraws the hand it extended to the ENKS and says, "ENKS is traitor, it has a connection with the MÎT." ENKS has a connection with Barzani, especially with the Kurdistan Democratic Party. Because of this connection, the Apoists make a calculation of their own and they say that if we do too much injustice and cruelty to them here, if we go too much on them, they will put pressure on us in Iraqi Kurdistan. Again, the same PKK tells the opposing force, 'Let's sit at the negotiation table,' this time when everywhere is in a stalemate. For example, he says 'Let ENKS come and talk about the existing problems'. But these are all lies, there have been 3 meetings between the PKK and the ENKS so far, and the fourth of these meetings was held recently. However, no positive result has been achieved so far.
"The ENKS sees the PKK as a terrorist force. The PYD sees the ENKS together with El-Nusra, ISIS, Erdogan and Islamic opponents"
-At what stage is the content of the talks between ENKS and PKK / PYD? Do you think the interviews will come to a conclusion?
Alliance will be among friends. They see each other as enemies. ENKS sees the PKK as a terrorist force. The PYD is also under his control. The PYD, on the other hand, sees the ENKS together with Al-Nusra, ISIS and Erdogan and Islamic opponents. How should they ally? The PYD's relations with the regime still continue. ENKS is opposed to the regime. I think there was some outside intervention. The US wanted to use it as a political tool before the elections. They also make these kinds of games. We should know that the political roads in front of the PYD have been closed. In the talks for the future of Syria, the PYD acts together with the Syrian regime. They are not with the dissidents. Nobody knows them either. The PKK has some principles and does not give up on them. They want the armed power to be theirs and do not accept the existence of the Peshmerga. Another important issue is that if you want to separate the PKK and PYD from each other, you will cut one of the two heads in one body. In this case, they both die. We initially stated that we are against this meeting. We have also stated that if there is going to be an interview, there are 2 main conditions before the meeting. First one; Let the PYD make an official statement and announce that it has cut its connection with the PKK. They should release everyone they arrested, be they Arabs or Kurds, and declare their apology for the massacres they committed. After that, interviews can be made. ENKS was able to say that they wanted the PKK and PYD to be separated from each other only in the third phase of the talks. Mazlum Abdi said, 'This issue is beyond me'. Aldar Halil said he would not accept this. Sabri Ok (PKK / KCK) also said, "We will never accept this, we did this job, we shed blood for this cause, this is our issue." In short, the PKK wanted to say, "Who is the PYD?" We knew these issues beforehand. We also told ENKS in time. But unfortunately, the PYD takes its political decisions from Kandil, and the ENKS takes it from Barzani. Therefore, the decision of the ENKS is not the decision of the Syrian Kurds. Sometimes we have to think clearly. If Mr. Barzani could protect, he would protect Kirkuk. It is more valuable to him than Kobani. It is more valuable than the Syrian Kurds. We must know this well.
As a Kurd from Diyarbakır, you may like Kobani and Qamishli. But you never love more than Diyarbakır. I may also like Urfa and another city, but I like Kobani more. We must know this truth well. This is not a case of us; on the contrary, it is something that has existed for centuries. These states have borders and as a result, I am Kurdish but Syrian too. Iraqi Kurds may not be as close to us as they are to Iraqis. Unfortunately, as I said, if decisions are made elsewhere, then the interests remain in the second stage. Sometimes it may come across, sometimes it may not.
They said recently that they wanted to discuss the Shengal issue in Syria. The PKK has no right to be in Shengal. The administration of the place should be given to the government of Kurdistan and the Kurds there. PKK or PYD soldiers should not be there. Likewise, as a Syrian Kurd, I do not want the PKK to rule over me. What do I have to do with the PKK? Since its foundation, the PKK has not come here to save even a handful of land, and it is evacuating 400 villages and trying to rule me. I would never accept this. All Kurds should say this. Iraqi Kurds cannot say, "We do not accept the existence of the PKK on our side, but it is okay to be in Syria." If you are a Kurd, we are also Kurds. If you do not accept cruelty and tyranny, we do not. If you want to be a political representative to your own people, we also do. We are not incomplete or foolish. They don't need to come from outside and destroy our political organizations and take their place. As I said, there is a fundamental problem. Al-Nusra came and said "they were with the revolution," but Al-Nusra and Al-Qaeda joined the revolution after us and they stuck in our waist like a dagger. We do not need men in Syria. We need help and support. You do not need them to come from another country take weapons here. Those who come here have tortured us.
“Theft, extortion and similar incidents are common in places controlled by the Free Syrian Army”
-What is the latest situation in the region Afrin, Al-Bab, Ras al-Ayn, Jarabulus and Tel Abyad which dominated by Free Syrian Army, the new name of the Syrian National Army (SMO), and controlled by Turkey? What is the reaction of the people to the Free Syrian Army?
As Syrian Kurds, we have been looking at this positively from day one. Because we thought about it and could not find any solution to the PKK problem. Before Turkey entering Afrin we told them that Turkey is a major and asked them to pull out. We said: Get out of there and deliver Afrin to the public or hand it over to ENKS. Then I went out on the TV and said these. The PKK did not accept this and said, "We will destroy Ankara on their heads." You know the PKK uses such words a lot. It came and went, and we said it would be a new experience. Thus, we thought we could separate the people from the PKK in other regions. Unfortunately, this hope did not come true. We also had many official meetings with the Turks. Even President Recep Tayyip Erdogan said, "We are not against the Kurds, but against the PKK, we will deliver them to their original owners." Unfortunately, Afrin is still not handed over to its original owners. Unfortunately, the Free Syrian Army is not a system or entity; on the contrary, it consists of many armed groups. Some of them even have nothing to do with freedom. They committed many violations of human rights. Theft, extortion and similar incidents are common in those regions. For example, someone else has seized the house of a person in Afrin and the real owner of the house cannot return to that house. Every day there are discussions and negotiations between us, Turks and other parties about these issues. A delegation was formed in Afrin against these extremism and violations. Events in these regions are not as big as mentioned in the media. But it is not as desired.
"In the regions held by the FSA, a structure and administration that we hoped would not be formed and set an example for the Kurdish regions."
In these regions, there was no structure and administration that we hoped would set an example for Qamishli, Kobani and other Kurdish regions in terms of political, economic and public order. You see, a terrorist attack takes place in Afrin every few days. The people are in chaos and confusion. Thefts happen every year when the harvest season comes. It is time for the olive harvest this year as well, but theft is happening again, although not like other years. Groups that are obliged to protect the people and the revolution often do this. In fact, many of them no longer even believe in revolution. They view it as a job. International benefits and salaries are low. They make up for this with theft. If you go to the extreme while stealing in a region then the public will not accept you. The situation is not as desired not only in Afrin but also in Al-Bab, Azaz, Jarablus, Talabyad and Ras al-Ayn. The regions in the hands of the Dissidents are not at an exemplary level and situation in terms of politics, economy, security, education and society.
Unfortunately, this also has an effect on us. Sometimes we ask foreign powers such as the USA, regions such as Raqqa and Qamishli are under your and the PKK's control, and the situation is not that different there. When we say this to them, they say 'why don't you fix the situation of the places under your control'. In such cases, harm and persecution always happens to the civilian population. So, we don't accept this. We go there and come. We were in Afrin recently and we had some work there. If the people there are tormented, it is torture for us. If they are helped, we will be helped. PKK is seen as the enemy and ENKS as the invader. They sit in their house and just make explanations. We follow the violations made every day. We support the people there. In short, the situation there is not what we want and it is not worthy of us.
“Turkey should ensure public order in areas under their control, must find a remedy against the persecution”
-Turkey cannot prevent crimes like pillage, theft and kidnapping people in areas under its control?
I don't call it control, it's just a partnership. Many things are in the hands of the Syrians, as well as in the hands of the Turks. I think this thing is in the hands of political parties in Turkey and Turkey's government. Likewise, it is in the hands of Syrians like us. We have to start a conversation on this issue and solve these problems. This cannot be resolved with a political and military decision. All over the world, chaos prevails in regions where there are soldiers. Even if soldiers enter Paris for 6 months, it will not be old Paris. But there are some important issues. When we show the existing negative situation to Turkey, they just react to the situation. But saying and reacting is not enough. A remedy must be found against this persecution. In my opinion, all political forces in Turkey and Syria need to think about this issue. Because it is important for me that the conditions of the regions where I live are good. Likewise, it is important for Turkey to realize a good situation there, that is, to ensure order and peace. Europe and the world, argues that Turkey was 'persecuting' there. Turkey should ensure public order in areas under their control and should not allow this discourse. They also disparage Turkey’s name because of what has been done. As a result, it is under Turkey's rule. There we are partners with Turkey. For example, there is a governor appointed by Turkey in there. This is important not only for us but also for Turkey and Turkey's political forces. I think comprehensive interviews should be held and problems should be determined one by one. And whatever program is required to solve these should be specified and the studies should be started as soon as possible. (ILKHA)